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tv   Meet the Press  MSNBC  August 12, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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i'm david gura at nbc headquarters at new york. we are preempting "meet the press" for what's happening in washington, d.c. a very small group of white nationalists held their rally in lafayette park, directly across from the white house. just feet away. it's the same group from last year's rally in charlottesville, virginia, over the course of the day, that very small group has been met by a much larger crowd of counterprotesters. those counterprotests beginning many hours ago, continuing now. you see antifa protesters mixed in with the counterprotesters. derek hake on the ground. he was near to where the protest took place. there was a bit of a standoff there between those antifa protesters and law enforcement officials from d.c., from the secret service i should say. washington has i think about two dozen different law enforcement groups who patrol that city because of all that is there. what's the latest? we see movement on the streets of washington, d.c. >> david, look, a fittingly
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anti-climactic end to the relatively anti-climactic rally on the streets of washington, d.c. today. the organizer jason kesler returned to vienna, virginia where this day started around 2:00 this afternoon. with that group of maybe perhaps two dozen would-be rally goers coming here. as you mentioned the same organizers from the charlottesville rally. several different groups represented including some white nationalists and supremacists. to call it a rally is disingenuous. only about 20 of these folks coming into d.c. via the metro, marching down the streets under police escort with bicycle police, several of the different agencies that you mentioned. allowing them to get to lafayette park where their rally was only supposed to begin at 5:30. perhaps because of the small number and the overwhelming number of correspondent protesters here i can't stress enough about how many factors larger the counterprotesters
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was. i think we have the weather to thank for that. it cleared both protester and counterprotester here a little bit earlier. you mentioned the standoff if you will, the tense moments that we experienced here about an hour ago. that was when with the rally over, police moved as though they were going to bring the rally goers out through the same entrance as which they arrived. some of the antifa folks spoiling for a fight, set up a makeshift barricade. they were ready to push against police and the police took the rally goers out another entrance. made it back to the metro largely unmolested by protesters and now as you can see the streets have reopened. it's really just the last hangers-on here, david. for what i think will go down as a clear day of messaging. the counterprotesters largely overwhelmingly drowning out the
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rally goers with a message that that kind of hate, division, it's not welcome in washington, d.c. and i think again with this relatively nonviolent except for that one sort of momentary standoff here that will go down as the lesson of today. >> as we're speaking here, we see more conflict between some of these i would assume antifa protesters with police. i wanted to ask you about the way in which the city prepared for this. muriel bowser the mayor of the city was out of the country visiting a sister city of washington, d.c. she came back to oversee this. tell us how well that was planned out. the approval of the protest was authorized a couple of days ago. tell us what went through the security surrounding this today. >> sure. david, so it's the u.s. park service -- the national park service that approves the permit. it said there would be 100 and 400 people attending the rally.
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as for the police response, look, the d.c. police are very, very good at this. you can make a convincing argument there has no police forces that has more practice at this than d.c. they do the inaugurations, they do the women's march. they do massive protests on a fairly regular basis. and so they know how to make this sort of thing work. we saw the usual accompaniments of such a protest all around the city. the streets closed this morning. dump trucks brought in to block off street to prevent the kind of attacks -- for example, the intentional attack in charlottesville last year where someone could drive down among the pedestrians. the streets were blocked not just by bike racks but by large, heavy trucks to protect everyone moving in and around. then you had simply an overwhelming presence of police from the secret service, from the park service, from the npd making sure that the unite the right rally goers could be safe
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and then the folks on the perimeter staging their counterprotests were doing so safely without worrying about cars or traffic. and without worrying about violence from any of these countervailing groups. even among the counterprotests there were stressful moments, different messaging. a diversity of voices here today. all quite well protected by the diversity of police departments in d.c. working on this project. >> all right. garrett haake, my colleague, covering the protests for us today. i'm joined by todd johnson, he's the editorial and we have an associate professor of anthropology studies and shermichael singleton is with me. garrett stressed how small this group was, calling it more of a club more than a rally. no indication that what they said was heard because of the size of the counterprotests that we saw there at lafayette.
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your reaction to that. just the opposition that we saw come out in force in washington, d.c. today. >> well, in the words of dr. king, they chose the light over the darkness. as we said earlier though, these individuals still have a great deal of presence on social media. i think there was also some earlier reporting that garrett did where they said they -- some of them had their faces covered. why not wear a hood? that was the purpose of the kkk hood, so you could not see who the individuals were. so we see that the nature of white supremacy and white supremacist activism is still cowardice in form. why didn't the people show up in washington, d.c. and show their faces? i think we just need to continue to shine a light on them. tell you one thing, when they call into my radio show i asked them, where do you work? what if i send an audio recording of your conversation with me to your place of
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employment? then they hang up the phone. when you shine a light on them they scatter like roaches. i think that's what they did today and that's good. >> i wanted to ask you about this date. it was a year ago last night that the group of protesters went to charlottesville with the tiki torches lit. we saw this protest begin. we are remembering that today as well. help us understand the link between what happened last year to what we're seeing here today. more than just the date. a lot has happened in the last year. >> as an anthropologist i spend a lot of time on the ground talking to race and how it plays out and i don't mean they're delegitimized. these are real -- this is how race plays out in our country. one of the prevailing frameworks that people used to talk about race is that somehow, even though we know that the upsurge of white supremacy is a continuation of the sort of racism, both overt and covert and is the founding of this country there's something different about this moment. and that was symbolized by these
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neo-nazis in charlottesville a year ago who are willing to walk down the street with their faces uncovered. right, who were holding the tiki lanterns and they were smiling into the camera. for a lot of people, this signalled a change in the way that we understand how white supremacy operates. so a very not just emboldened by a pride that's normalized through the current presidency and the administration. now, we could maybe perhaps look at today, look at what less than two dozen folks who showed up and maybe we could say, maybe that's wrong. maybe folks aren't actually emboldened, maybe they're not coming out in full force. that is also wrong. so what i think is happening actually we're looking at a fissure in white -- among white supremacists. we're looking at a strategy that is taking to the streets, seen as perhaps too radical, right? so what is really happening with a lot of those folks who showed up a year ago in charlottesville
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is they don't need to necessarily take the streets to the fights when they're embedded in in the institutions. it's embedded in policy so this normalization and deeply institutionized racism that has been at the founding of our country has been sort of taken up as a mantel among white supremacists. we don't need to take the fight to the street, it is everywhere. that speaks to how we respond as folks who as you say are children of the light. how do we respond to that? so it might not be that we are in the middle of the streets of d.c. you know, facing off with our placards but we have to think about what that resistance looks like on a very mundane level. on the day to day level and within the institutions that we are a part of and sharing space within. >> todd, i want to ask you about the symbolism of the place here. this is happening in washington, d.c., steps away from the white house. the president is not there this weekend, he's on his vacation in new jersey. how is this different situating
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it here? having the brazenness to have this rally in the nation's capital, among all of these symbols that we associate with this country? >> well, we have seen kind of the link between some of the rhetoric in trump's campaign leading up to his election as president, towards, you know, 2015, 2016 and then, you know, through his inauguration. these sorts of groups, the neo-nazis, white supremacies felt like they had his ear, whether it was abstract or concretely. then when he made the statements after charlottesville happened it kind of lended some credence to that where he was kind of equivocating, saying some good on this side, that side. let's get along, but not specifically calling it out. i think there was a difference in what he tweeted today, but still that equivocation of all kinds of racism, kind of saying the all lives matter. all voices. not willing to get into the details and the -- and maybe the shame and how uncomfortable it
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is to actually get specific about the outcomes and the institutions behind racism. well, what about black unemployment or what about everybody coming together? that's kind of not, you know, the approach that say president obama had or other leaders of the past where, you know, a lot of people are looking for folks who talk bluntly and openly and honestly about that. i think in america we struggle to do that consistently. >> shermichael, did you have any optimism going into this week that the president might do more as he did throughout the day here on msnbc, there was nothing on the president's schedule that indicated he had any plans to make any sort of formal statement about what's happened here. this is not something he's waded into a lot suffice to say. they're alluding to the tweet we got from the president yesterday. a few hundred characters from the president about what happened in charlottesville a year ago. equivocating, talking about racism in all forms, i'm paraphrasing a little bit. >> right. >> were you at all optimistic
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that we'd see more, that the president would do more after that conflict in charlottesville, he'd do more than he has done over the course of the year? >> no david. i did not have any expectation and nor was i optimistic. if i was advising the president, i would have taken this as an opportunity to address the nation. to talk as todd was just referencing to speak bluntly about many of these issues that impact our country. sure, i would love to talk about the record low unemployment numbers and how great the economy is doing. who wouldn't? but in the midst of what's the crisis going on in our country, at some point you do look to the president for that moral leadership. you do look to the president to bring the country together. and i think for an overwhelming majority of americans, including republicans, black and white individuals, they are concerned that the president is not doing that. so yeah, sure, the country could maybe do an okay in some aspects but what does any of that mean if we're divided?
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what does that mean if we begin to normalize this type of hate and rhetoric that we see coming from the groups? what does that mean if the groups are trying to change their image to as the professor or the doctor was referencing. they're in our institutions now, so the struggle is not just protesting but in various aspects of our culture. so i think again, you look to the president to confront these things head on and i don't have the expectation that president trump is going to do that. i don't think anyone in this country should. if they do, then they're simply naive. >> we'll come back in a moment. thanks to todd johnson. the rest will stick with me here as we continue to follow the white nationalist rally in washington, d.c. the group of protesters making their way from d.c., making their way home after that small assembly in lafayette plaza earlier today. coming up rudy giuliani hits the airwaves and leaves the
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♪ dj fluffernutter simple. easy. awesome. ask how to get $300 back when you sign up for xfinity mobile, and purchase a new samsung phone. visit your local xfinity store today. welcome back. in the russia investigation today, more revisionist history from the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani. he claims that president trump never asked ever fbi director james comey to go easy on michael flynn. the former national security adviser who has already pled guilty. but that's not what giuliani said last month. >> the conversation about michael flynn, the president didn't find out that comey believed there was about -- i think it was february when it supposedly took place. >> you told abc news that the president told comey quote can you give him a break. now you're saying they never --
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>> i never told abc that. that's crazy. the reality is comey is a good witness for us. >> how is he a good witness for the president if he's saying that the president was directing him in his words to let the michael flynn investigation go? >> he didn't direct him to do that. what he said to him was can you give him a break? >> joining me is a former federal prosecutor and glenn, let me get you to react to this. there's a lot of contradiction when you listen to rudy giuliani, the president's lawyer. who do you make of this one? this is something that comey talked about when he testified before congress, something he writes about in his book as well. what do you make of this contradiction in particular, what does it tell you about -- i don't know, the relationship between the president and his counsel. >> you know, david, it's an ever-changing story. you know, we have seen it from jay sekulow when he said that the president took no part in drafting on air force one the narrative concerning what
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happened during the trump tower meeting. now, we don't know what mr. sekulow was told, but we have to infer he got that information from his client, the president. and then of course mr. giuliani months later says of course the president participated in the drafting of that narrative. now, we see the same thing with mr. giuliani himself saying, listen, all the president ever did was ask director comey to go easy on michael flynn and now today he squarely contradicts himself. these are defense lawyers doing what defense lawyers often do. that's not a criticism of defense lawyers. they are a vitally important part of our criminal justice system and they keep the federal government in check. they make sure that the federal government is not overreaching or doing something underhanded but they're not tethered to the facts. they don't seem to be tethered to reality. what they're doing is saying anything whether supported by facts or not. to try to i think confuse the
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american people in hopes when and if an impeachment hearing takes place, people will throw up their hands and say we don't know what to believe. >> katie banner, you have covered the justice department, you cover the attorney general jeff sessions and he was invoked in the tweet yesterday. he said he was weak. that he's missing in action. scared stiff and missing in action. that was the phrase that the president used in the tweet. this is not the first time that the president has called out the attorney general, that he's disparaged the attorney general. of course the attorney general has recused himself from this investigation. from your reporting how does he react to this? to what degree -- is this something he hears or reacts to? >> of course i think the attorney general is disappointed in the way that the relationship has soured between he and the president. he was one of the first and strongest supporters of the president. i think that you have to sort of see that sort of attack as part
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of a larger pattern on the justice department, on mueller and now on witnesses in mueller's investigations like jim comey. it's true he wants to destroy the credibility. we can see that the attacks are working more than 55% of republican voters do believe that mueller is unfair and that the investigation is unfair and think the fbi is unfairly biased against the president. we'll see what happens going into the mid term elections if we don't see any some movement out of mueller's team. >> i'm living this day in and out. you are as well. we know who the principals are and yet when i read some of the tweets from the president about what they're referring to, bruce ohr and his beautiful wife nellie for instance yesterday, what he's calling upon attorney general jeff sessions to do. i'm often confused. i have to go to the glossary. i have to look at the list of players to see who the people are. is that what this president is trying to do? is that what his legal team is trying to do?
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sow as much confusion and throwing out so many games that are not household or familiar names to many american people? >> absolutely. whether or not that's the intent that is certainly the impact. around if you look -- if you look at what happened in the 2016 election, what allowed them to play an outside role in the 2016 election they sowed confusion and made things more divisive as we have seen with both of mueller's indictments around russia and now the president is doing that. whether he intends to or not, that will be the impact going into the midterms. >> i'm going to turn to you, glenn. there's been a back and forth going on for eight months now, at least according to rudy giuliani between bob mueller and his team about the prospects of an interview with the president of the united states. "the wall street journal" out with a new piece on this. i'm going to read a quote. we certainly won't do an interview after september 1st because we're not going to be the ones to interfere with the election, mr. giuliani said.
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let him he referring to mr. mueller get all the bad publicity and the attacks for that. what do you make of this tack from the president's lawyer? he's floated the idea of this wrapping up before the midterms before he seemingly in this white house by peter nicholas, trying to set the terms of the interview. >> you know, mr. giuliani continues to negotiate against himself. i don't know if bob mueller is having a dialogue on the other side. of course, there is no hard and fast rule from the department of justice regarding the timing of the conclusion of the investigation. you know, the custom is that the prosecutors try not to do anything that would interfere with the fairness of an election so that means they usually don't make big announcements. they might withhold indictments until after the election is over. but again this is mr. giuliani. he seems to be trying to negotiate with an on coming freight train and that's bob mueller. and you know he just needs to
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either get off the tracks or i think he's going to get run over. i don't believe this was an intent to bring the president in to sit down with bob mueller. i don't think we'll see him appear before a grand jury even though the president could voluntarily submit to the grand jury jury. i don't think that mueller willson him because the department of justice has a policy against subpoenaing the target of the investigation. my strong sense we'll never see the president interviewed before bob mueller reaches his decision, whether is to return indictments or author a report which is disclosed to congress. >> mr. mueller's office declined to comment. that something you read in piece after piece about the whole process. i think that's worth pointing out. thank you both for joining us. we'll continue toollow what appears to be a very small demonstration in washington, d.c. law enforcement there in washington have been trying to
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keep some antifa protesters at bay at the conclusion of the gathering of white nationalists that took place just outside the white house. we have seen some scuffles, some conflict between the protesters and police. we'll continue to monitor that. coming up we'll go inside the alt-right movement and look at its rise during donald trump's presidency. ♪ ♪ keep it comin' love. if you keep on eating, we'll keep it comin'. all you can eat riblets and tenders at applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.
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some new video in our newsroom tonight from moments ago in washington, d.c. you see officers there spraying a crowd of antifa protesters who are still lingering there on the streets of washington following today's white nationalist rally. a gathering of just about two dozen white supremacists in washington, d.c. for the most part a large portion of the crowd has dispersed. these are pictures from a few moments ago in washington. today's rally marked the one year anniversary of a similar one in charlottesville, virginia. garrett haake has been on the scene with protesters in washington. some dramatic foot and there, from a few moments ago. as you're saying throughout the last couple of hours, the law enforcement is trying to be diligent here. give us a rundown of the latest from where you stand.
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>> yeah, david. an unfortunate code which had been uniformly peaceful across the board here. you get used to seeing images like that where at the end of the day you have the hard core folks who are still out on the street. still trying to protest. still trying to perhaps overcommunicate their message. whatever that message may be. back here in front of the white house, in front of lafayette square, things have returned to normal with the exception of some clean-up work that will have to be done with bike racks and the like. i think the overarching message will be the overwhelming effectiveness of the counterprotests and the underwhelming performance of the rally itself. fewer than two dozen folks attending this unite the right rally, some white nationalists, white supremacist rhetoric coming from the folks this morning but the lack of coordination and the lack of organization, the lack of any
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sufficient size or scope or focus or coherent message from that group, met with the pushback from the citizens of washington, d.c. and decent people who came out to make sure that every step of the way that that messages of hate and division and disunity simply would not be welcomed here in the district only columbia. the rain and the small size of that rally foreshortened what had been a rally that was planned to go on until at least 7:30 or so tonight. instead, with those folks leaving early we saw a bit of a clash between antifa and police. david, i think that's going to be a story that we'll have to continue watching at every one of the rallies, antifa presence is something that we have to pay very close attention to. i don't think we did as much of a few years ago covering this kind of thing. but again, in the overarching picture a small koda to the day
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that was defined by the counterprotesters drowning out the message of the unite the right rally 2.0 here in washington, d.c. >> yeah, those organizers having made their way to vienna, virginia, out of the nation's capital. thank you very much. and for more on the rise of right wing nationalism, i want to bring in the journalist and the author of "everything you love will burn, inside the rebirth of white nationalism in america." and shermichael singleton is with me as well. vegas, let me turn to you and let me ask you about the prism that the white nationalists will see what happened today. this was a small group, everything dissipated. we have the tempests that are occurring between antifa protesters and the police. how are they going to see what will happen today? >> i think there's a large portion of self-delusion going on in the movement as well. they will say this was a one off, that they disavowed jason kesler which a lot of them did. i would say this doesn't
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indicate the relative strength of the movement. it's been a rough year for the far right, particularly for the leadership. so they're finding their footing these days. i think they'll try to spin this as a failure by jason kesler or as -- you know, any number of reasons. >> does the group want a leader? we talk about jason kesler who filed the paperwork for the rally. when you look at folks who's white house the beliefs do they want a unified group? do they want somebody calling the shots and heading the movement? >> oh, man, well they have wanted that forever. everyone wants to be the next furor, everyone wants to be the next hitler of the movement and that's bedevilled them since forever. since the '40s and '50s because they can't agree on one guy. there's so much bickering and feuding and little petty differences in the groups. that none of them can find a single person to agree on. and they all want to be that guy so there's so much back stabbing and bickering. so yeah, there's no way they'll
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coalesce around anything. >> i want to go back to charlottesville, i want to get your sense of what happened there, how it changed you. watching all of that unfold. i'm looking at what's happening here in washington, d.c. today. it's happening at a time when the president's out of town. he's not in the white house which is just across the street where from this gathering took place. lawmakers aren't in town as well. they have left the city as well. we haven't heard directly from a lot of them since this took place. let's go back a year, to august 2017. what did that mean to you as you looked at your own political identity, what you saw in charlottesville, virginia? >> you know, david, i guess candor would oblige i tell the truth here. like most people i was appalled. i was surprised. i was angry and confused and you would think talking to my grandparents about some of the issues they dealt with on a practically regular basis growing up that though we still had a lot of issues to overcome in this country that no one
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could deny, at least at this point these things, this openness with racism, with hatred, we have at least been able to move on beyond these things. and unfortunately, we have not. i don't think, david, these things are political. sure, i'm a republican, folks, democrats, progressive, et cetera, these are things that impact our humanity. how we treat one another. how we view one another. i think at some point we as a country, we need a leader or leaders who are somehow able to help all of us get beyond the politics of this and really look at this from a humanistic standpoint. i think that is what we are missing. our leaders should speak to all of us. regardless of our ethnicity, regardless of orientation, regardless of political ideology. that is currently missing. there are so many people in this country right now who are trying to figure out where do we go from here?
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what does it truly mean to be an american? these ideals that we have held up for so long, are we truly living up to the things, i think for so many people, david, we unfortunately are not. but i remain optimistic. we have an opportunity now to make it better not only for ourselves tomorrow but for generations that are yet to come. >> vegas, last question to you. we have been talking about normalization. i keep coming back to what phrase from boots to suits. to what degree is that a deliberate tactic of the groups? normalizing in that way and i'm just curious about recruitment and how that has changed as well. we talked about cyberspace a few moments ago. is that the principal means, people recruit new adherents? >> that's a new crowd that came on the scene in 2015 and 2016, what we call the alt-right.
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they're the people who came out of the reddits, for chance -- >> online messages. >> and they're using absolutely they're using the online world for recruitment. but again, they're still trying to figure out who they are and what they do. normalization is a very important point and richard spencer said he saw the movement in his words the ideological kitchen in which they cook up the ideas and pass on to donald trump. and i think that has certainly happened. i think my -- shermichael said this shouldn't be a political thing, but one party has embraced this. we have congressman retweeting neo-nazi sympathizers so it's a normalization and it's absolutely political and i think the party in question really needs to look within itself. >> where is -- last question to
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you. where is richard spencer today? he became more of a household name last year of course. but what role is he playing in this movement today? >> not much. i mean, he is of course a leader of sorts but he had a very rough year. after he got punched in the face on inauguration, he's been -- in washington, he became this sort of -- this warrior poet of the far right. he saw himself as this fighter and also this leader. and he milked that for a good year. >> punch a nazi meme was born. >> yeah. it was a good thing for him because he was no longer a suit, but he was a fighter. then he was hounded by far right protesters who demonstrated against and he lost his audience too. now he is being booted from social media and he's really lost his megaphone. >> thank you so much for the team. vegas tenfold and shermichael is going to stick with me. coming up, omarosa manigault newman goes all in against her
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former boss in an exclusive interview on nbc "meet the press." what she says about his mental state and about the secret tape she recorded of her firing. that's coming up next. nowhere. you do, too, but not in time. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake. you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges... how mature of them. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪ alright guys let'sns to th let's do this guys let'sns to the greek theatr (beep) ♪can i get a connection? ♪can i get can i get a connection?♪ ♪can i get a connection?
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welcome back. i'm david gura. a short time ago the white house responded to omarosa manigault newman's exclusive interview with chuck todd on "meet the
quote
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press." at issue is john kelly's secret recording. >> if we make this a friendly departure, you can look at your time here in the white house as a year of service to the nation. and then you can go on without any type of difficulty in the future relative to your reputation. >> can i ask you a couple questions? is the president aware -- >> let's not go down the road. this is a non-negotiable discussion. >> i don't want to negotiate. this is my departure, i want an opportunity to understand -- >> no, we can talk another time. this has to do with serious integrity violations. so i'll let it go at that. so the staff and everyone on the staff works for me, not the president. >> well, in a statement released just moments ago white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders wrote this -- quote, the very idea a staff member would sneak a recording device into the white house situation room
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shows blatant disregard for our national security. and then to brag about it on national television further proves the lack of character and integrity of this disgruntled former white house employee. i want to bring back mark thompson, the host of make it plain on sirius xm progress. and shermichael singleton, republican political consultant. amy, let me turn to you first and get your reaction to this story broadly. the book is not out yet. we have seen the advanced leaks in the daily mail first and then since we heard her on "meet the press" with chuck todd, what do you make of this, this omarosa moment? >> i think we're all just tired of talking about omarosa. this is not a surprise. omarosa is of low character. she was brought into the white
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house precisely because she has no allegiance to the black community. so none of this is surprising. it's also true what she is saying about president trump we can believe he's a misogynist, a racist. we see that in his policies, his actions. we see it in his language. both of things exist as truisms. however, i'm so tired of talking about omarosa as a singular individual. what is really dangerous about what she represents is not just omarosa. i want us to think about the black pastors that have come in support of donald trump. >> darrell scott and others. >> think about blacks for trump who are these people? and what it means to define yourself as somehow exceptional or different from or if you imagine yourself to be different from the groups of blacks that are under siege through this administration. that type of black exceptionalism, sort of false sense of identity and false understanding of how politics and race play out in the country is just as dangerous as white supremacy because it's sort of a tertiary arm of white supremacy. >> mark, i want you to respond
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to that. amy said she was brought into the office of the public liaison, according to the daily beast she botched black history month for the white house. didn't do anything about it. i think what amy is describing is real cynicism on the white house's part to have that portfolio. >> well, what amy has very aptly described is a form of min stralsy. that's happening with the white house, particularly with omarosa. she probably knowing her -- see i asked her about the tapes in 2016. >> i think we have tape of this. let's play a tape here of mark thompson asking omarosa about that. >> is it true that donald trump used the n word? >> absolutely not true. not true. not true. not true. i'm not going to speculate. that's not true. i don't have to speculate. >> you see how adamant she is then. and so that -- what she is saying in the book she didn't he about the tapes. whether she actually heard the
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tape or not, she worked on "the apprentice." she is probably trying to curry some favor with the african-american community. i'm sure you'd agree and shermichael as well, she's never going to get that. she'll only -- always be considered as being barely worthy of being on a bottle of pancake syrup. i agree with amy, this is very, very dangerous. because it enables a lot of the white supremacy that we're continuing to see. when people like omarosa and some of these preachers who are also -- carry out this behavior and cosign, what did darrell scott say that donald trump has done more for the black community, that's absolutely untrue. now in fairness to omarosa, perhaps we should treat her like we treat gates or anyone else who has flipped in some of the criminal proceedings. >> rick gates. >> rick gates.
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so i think the information she has to disclose is useful in indicting trump's character. but in terms of her being accepted as a person with credibility, no more. >> shermichael, i want you to respond to that. a couple of illusions to min stralsy and aunt jemima and pancake syrup. i want to get your response to that. going back to that meeting with inner city pastors that took place a few moments ago. it was a variation on a theme. we have seen this happen time and time again. the people brings in people to respond positively to him mostly before the meetings takes place before reporters are ushered out. >> i don't have a problem with people meeting with the president if there's something substantive. the presidents thought they'd get support from the administration and then they realized it was a photo-op with
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the president and something for the white house to utilize as a talking point. look, you know, i have always been very, very straightforward as much as i possibly can be as it relates to the issues within my party. as a republican and with the issues that i perceive the president has as far as his character flaws. and many of his mishaps as i would interpret them and most of the country as it relates to his leadership. but going back to omarosa, what i think is very interesting about this is the fact that she was able to record so many individuals within the white house. remember, the white house had russians there at some point. north koreans have also visited at some point. i'm wondering if she was able to do were they not able to do the same? >> huge security issue here and one we're looking into at nbc news. it will be a huge part of this story as the week begins. thanks to shermichael singleton. mark thompson and to amy meredith cox. a change of heart.
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we'll speak with a former white supremacist who has dedicated his life to reforming others. (phone ping) gentlemen, i have just received word! the louisiana purchase, is complete! instant purchase notifications from capital one . technology this helpful... could make history. what's in your wallet?
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welcome back. right now still a large police presence in the nation's capital, in washington, d.c., as a small group of protesters are making their way to vienna,
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virginia, northern virginia where they make their capital home. they gathered in washington today in lafayette plaza. what you're seeing here are some of antifa encountering police. a lot has dissipated. there is back and forth between this protest group and law enforcement in washington, d.c. nbc's jeff bennett is in lafayette park where the rally took place. jeff, get us up to speed with what's going on. indeed what happened? you and i spoke a few hours as this was getting underway. there was a small tempest, a small conflict at lafayette plaza. that's dissipated. what are you seeing now? >> hey there, david. we actually walked into the back half of that skirmish. we were trying to make our way from the white house to a live location. we were routed around it by secret service. as you mention, the white supremacists were outnumbered exponentially. there were two dozen of them and the number of counter protesters
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numbered really into the thousands. somewhere between 1500 and 2000 counter protesters. the white nationalists were outmatched. they were disorganized and dee legitimatized by that poor showing that they had. and we should say good thing they had a poor showing. you did see a real kind of level of organization on the other side that made the effort really mounted by jason kessler to look really, really bad. so at this point -- we should also mention of course he did not get the permit he was seeking to do this follow-up rally, this sequel in charlottesville. and that's one of the reasons, the primary reason why he shifted his focus here to washington. theoretically, in closer proximity to president trump, although president trump as you well know is wrapping up his week long what they call a working vacation, what the white house calls a working vacation in bedminster. so he didn't see any of this. i'm sure he watched it on television. he sent out a preemptive tweet yesterday, the other day, saying he condemns racism of all kinds. depending on where you sit, you
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can see that as a condemnation to what he didn't do last year. or in parallel where he said there is blame on all sides, david. >> jeff bennett vividly illustrating how close this was to where the white house is, where jeff bennett works day in, day out covering washington for nbc news. thank you for the time. >> sure. >> what's behind the hate, what moulton vindicat motivates people to march gentzler people they've never met? a former white supremacist who dedicated his life to reforming others. he's the subject of tonight's msnbc special breaking hate, which airs at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. in that documentary he brings a young man who marched with white nationalists in charlottesville last year face to face with susan, the mother of slain activist heather heyer. >> i'm sorry you lost your daughter. >> thank you. i appreciate that. but i don't hold you accountable.
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you understand? so where do we go from here? how do we fix this? >> honestly, susan, i don't know how. >> i don't either. i think we're all trying to figure it out. hour i spoke to christian who was in washington, d.c. today as protesters outnumbered the small white nationalist gathering. >> what i saw s were over a thousand counter protesters and a few white nationalists. they distanced themselves from this rally because their strategy is to go more mainstream. what they saw last year hurt their numbers a little bit. so while kegs lettssler had gon and done this rally and under performed, the rest of the leaders are going more underground. what i think is more dangerous is somebody like jason kessler with a suit versus what i used to be 30 years ago, what you could see coming from a mile away. even though they may have lost because they had less numbers, it was still a win for him because there were thousands of
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counter protesters and hundreds of police officers who had to come out and it still showed that they had a platform right on the front lawn of the white house. >> you have talked to, you have debated with jason kessler. let's take a listen if we could to the conversation if you can call it that that the two of you had. >> do you hold yourself accountable for the violence that happened there? you were the organizer of this rally. >> those protesters put themselves in a very dangerous, very risky situation because they were defying the state of emergency order. >> but it was an alt-right person who came to that rally who ultimately drove his car into a group of people. >> that's true. but he has not been found guilty and i would say there is a lot of reasonable doubt in that. >> christian, what can you tell us about jason kessler as we are talking about at the top of the show, he sat down for an interview with npr this week, an interview in which he ranked the races. npr receiving a significant amount of blow back for airing that earlier this week.
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who is he? he's the one who filed this application, the organizer of what we saw today. >> you know, david, 30 years ago we had a strategy that would take it and make us under cover to mainstream. we traded in our boots for suits. jason kessler embodies this new strategy of leaderless resistance or the lone wolf strategy where they want to look like our neighbors, our doctors, our lawyers, our teachers. in fact, many of them are. the whole idea is to make their message more palatable to appeal to the average white american racist because 30 years ago we recognized that our look was too edgy. we've gone underground and mainstream and i suspect we're not going to see the last of them. >> christian, thank you for your perspective today. i appreciate it. you can see more of christian's story when msnbc presents "breaking hate" at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. that does it for this hour. i'm david gurra. up next, "kasie d.c." but if th', our app helps monitor your spending too. and if that's not enough to help you save,
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