tv Face the Nation CBS December 3, 2017 10:30am-11:28am EST
the two big stories and more. with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. two senators investigating, south carolina republican lindsey graham and angus king will also be here. budget director mick mulvaney. and handicapped the chances of the government sitting down at the end of the week when it runs out of funding. plus, new poll numbers on alabama senate race. now is roy moore faring after allegations of sexual misconduct with minors. all that plus plenty of political analysis coming up on "face the nation." good morning, welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. we knew it would be busy week when congress returned to washington but we had no idea just how busy. more stories of sexual misconduct on the part of the longest serving house democrat john conyers now others prompted more calls for congress to do
better job of policing its own. north korea fired another missile, one that in theory could reach washington. >> it is a situation that we will handle. >> dickerson: progress on tax bill continued as a brisk face after senate republicans cut number of deals to gain its passionage. which thrilled the president. >> people are going to be very, very happy they're going to get tremendous -- tremendous tax cuts and tax relief. >> dickerson: that remains to be seen. unsurprisingly democrats were not happy. montana's john did show and tell of the massive bill. >> this is your government at work. here is the bill as written. here is modifications that are in it. i can read one word, it's called add this language. can you tell me what that word is? >> dickerson: arrived with a big development special counsel robert mueller's investigation into possible trump campaign collusion with the russians and obstruction of justice as michael flynn
lying to the fbi and said he's cooperating with mueller. the president further muddied already complicated story with a saturday tweet that seemed to suggest he was aware of flynn lying to the fbi at the time when he was calling the investigation a witch hunt. i had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and the fbi. he has pled guilty to those lies. day after the president fired flynn for lying, former fbi director james comey says the president asked him to go easy on his investigation of flynn. sources tell cbs news that the tweet was drafted by one of mr. trump's attorneys. we want to take a closer look at what the senate passed, their bill would repeal the obamacare individual mandate, corporate tax rate would be cut from 35% to 20%. it will nearly double the standard tax deduction, eliminate state and local tax deductions but allow up to $10,000 exception for property
estate tax exemption limit and raise alternative minimum tax threshold. analysis of the bill by the nonpartisan joint committee indicates that even accounting for economic growth the tax plan would add trillion dollars to the deficit. we begin this morning with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell he joins froes louisville. welcome, mr. majority leader, i want to start with the balance of the tax cut that passed through the senate. the corporate tax rate is at 20%, it's been sold as middle class tax cut but those middle class taxes will expire, analysis shows majority of the middle class will get a tax cut there are some whose taxes will increase, why not include this bill make it so that you could say everybody in the middle class will get a tax cut that's permanent? >> impossible to do that. you can't craft any bill that would guarantee no one was in a special category that might get tax increase. what i can tell you is that every segment of t
every category of taxpayers on average gets significant relief. average family, $200 a year you mentioned standard deductions doubling child care credit increase, clearly most people, middle income taxpayers overwhelming will get tax reli relief. and because of the business tax changes, it's much less likely that the job they currently have is going to end up in another country, because we are clearly uncompetitive in the global economy with the current tax rates. john, i think this coupled with the regulatory relief, administration has been providing, the reasons that economy is beginning to pick up, consumer confidence subpoena. i don't want to read too much into quarterly growth rates but we've had two growth rates of 3% growth. i think sthg go to get the country growing again.
>> dickerson: but the question of middle class, would be way to craft it so that the number of people who might get a tax increase would be pretty small and there were republican efforts to expand the earned income tax credit to make the child tax credit more robust, to lower the rates for people at the other end those were all republican efforts that didn't get much energy. where as energy on corporate tax rate was always, it's going to be 20% and no is tinkering with that, just in terms of where the emphasis was on the work there's much more work that could have been done on the middle class and lowering than what was done in crafting that bill. >> the questions whether usual getting tax relief. of course people on lower end don't provide huge percentage of the revenue that we raise through taxation. what people want is, am i going to get relief myself, answer, overwhelmingly, likely to. is my job likely to continue to be in the united states. are we going to laugh a growing economy so my children will be ab
and aspirations that i want them to have. and this is designed to get the economy growing. we didn't have single year, 3% growth during all the obama years. we were clearly under performing. you have to ask the question, why. combination of over regulation undulose tax code. >> dickerson: winners and losessers, let's move on to the question of process, because democrats of course made lot of complaints about process you said friday night you complain about process when you're losing. and the senate process might seem like something not important to people but you wrote a book called "the long game" in which you talk a lot about the process, you say in fact what is at the heart of the senate why it's a different institution. so, this looks like situation when you're in the minority you like the process built in the majority you move on. >> not true. we followed the regular order, multiple hearings, democrats were there, days of
days of amendments, democrats offered amendments in committee ad naseum. the process on the floor, the reconciliation process is regular order, that is how they passed obamacare. we didn't do anything that you could call a foul or process. let me just say they didn't like the fact that we repealed u unpopular individual mandate from obamacare yet didn't offer single amendment. >> dickerson: 25 days of debate on obamacare you said the process at the time was arrogant they were pushing popular bill through. this bill is unpopular why isn't this the same thing? >> we'll see how unpopular it is. when people start noticing they're paying less in taxes, the economy is growing, more jobs and opportunity but we have the very different -- pretty clear during this debate we have very different view of what america ought to look like.
are quite content with slow growth and little opportunity to improve the conditions. we think we need to jumpstart the economy and provide more jobs and opportunity for the american people. one of suggestion go to be proven wrong here. >> dickerson: let me ask you about roy moore. we have a poll out that says mr. moore supposition points over his democratic opponent, in that poll, it says that among mr. moore's supporters, 56% say they were more likely to vote for him after you said he should quit the race. what do you make of that? >> well, look, people in alabama are going to decide a week from tuesday who is send to the senate it's up to them. it's been pretty robust campaign with lot of people weighing in. the president supported something different earlier in the process. but in the end voters of alabama will make their choice. >> dickerson: should that be the final word, the white house when asked about the president's accusers said, voters heard about the president's accusers, they voted
subject shouldn't that be the case with roy moore? >> well, look, i'm concerned about the senate. and if we have two investigations going on right now, senator franken and senator menendez might be another one depending on people who are in the senate. and it will be up to the people of alabama to make this decision and we'll swear in whoever is elected and see where we are at that particular pointed. >> dickerson: in the past you've supported ethics committed tee determinations of the case of senator vitter that said behavior before he got to the senate was not germane in terms of punishing him as a senator, that would seem to cover roy moore in which case let ethics committee look into it. >> i don't remember -- i'm not on ethics committee, i don't remember exactly how that case was handled. ethics committee makes those decisions whether behavior prior to the senate to relevant or
they will decide, the parameters, if you will, of their jurisdiction. that decision will be made based on facts of the particular case. i imagine probably will be a case, whether the out come is there, i don't know. but look, ethics committee is 3-3. neither side can take advantage of the other, it has to be pretty credible case to go forward. in other words, at least one member of the other party would have to decide that the case was worth pursuing, all that have will be considered by the committeef they have a member of the senate that they think has a case that ought to come before them. >> dickerson: majority leader mitch mcconnell, thank for being with us. joining us now, lindsey graham. congratulations, let me pick up on something we were talking about with majority leader on roy moore, majority leader said, voters of bam bell will
that seems like there's a new standard basically fit happened before you got to the senate voters will decide. >> i think the body can regulate itself at the end of the day when he comes to the senate if he does. i think an investigation ethics investigation would be smarted thing to do. and we'll see what the ethics committee decides as to whether they look at behavior before he came into the senate, does that matter, if they do, what did they find, we'll see. >> dickerson: could you have him be a senator, would you be able to based on what you've heard, you'd be okay with him being a senator? >> we can't stop him from being seated f. there was an investigation in all six members of the committee said they believe he was a child molester that would be a
problem. >> dickerson: move on to the president's tweet about the fbi, you're on the judiciary, oversee the fbi. president says that after years of phony, dishonest clinton investigation, running the fb
in his tore built fear not bring it back to grea greatness. fbi in tatters? >> no. i think comey needs to answer questions as his time as director. he made some decisions that were really very, very wrong. i would just say this, there is ongoing criminal investigation, comey may be part of it. he tweeted comment ongoing criminal investigations at your own peril. >> you were a former prosecutor, along those lines, the president has said he knew that clinton lied to the fbi yesterday he has called the invest situation a witch hunt because it was a witch hunt he fired james comey how do you know he lied to the fbi then fired the fbi director for investigating? >> what flynn lied about, i don't think it's wrong for
transition person. i think the logan act is worth the paper it's on. i'm not worried about what happened after the election in terms of trying to communicate with the russians about the israeli resolution or about sanctions. it comes down to the following to me, was there any effort by the trump campaign to coordinate with russian intelligent services or any entity controlled by the russians to receive benefit during the election. they found the one guy that would know that. >> dickerson: that question of obstruction, because that's the other thing that's part of this issue, if you know he lied to the fbi how can you say an investigation into whether he lied to the fbi is a witch hunt but commission he fired for carrying out? >> apparently this statement is that -- by the president's lawyer says, i didn't know, he wasn't in on the interview. he did know that he lied to the vice president. the vice president was very upset, he took action. to me that's not the issue. here's the issue. the fact that from my point of view, if it was coordination between the trump campaign and
person who would know more about that than flynn. >> dickerson: on the national security front, you are very critical of the russians for interfering in the eye can. >> yes, they did. dickerson: former obama administration official says interference was cyber equivalent of 9/11. if after that kind of an event, given your foreign policy judgment about incoming add energies that says to the perpetrator of, let's work out deal on sanction, is that will punish for that behavior don't overreact because we'll be on your side later when -- the newts judgment. >> number one, the obama administration didn't acted like known. they were late to the game, did the least amount possible. what they did in the interim before trump took office was a slap on the wrist. i don't buy that whole narrative. i don't have a problem with the trump administration reaching out to the russians we're going to take a different view about sanctions, seek your help in the
u.n. secure. secure. >> that behavior after the election is reaching out to foreign government we have different view about things. i'm not here to condemn the president about that. here is what i'm saying. that collusion between a campaign and foreign government is unacceptable l. is no evidence of collusion, nobody has been charged with it, but you found one person who would know if it did exist. so it won't be long before we understand one way or the other that the trump people clueded with russia because i can't imagine it happening and flynn not know about it. >> dickerson: let's take a quick break. we'll be right back. pap h for every hour that you're idling in your car, you're sending about half a gallon of gasoline up in the air. that amounts, over the course of the week, to about 10 pounds of carbon dioxide. growth is good, but when it starts impacting our quality of air and quality of life, that's a problem. so forward-thinking cities like sacramento are investing in streets that are smarter and greener.
the solution was right under our feet. asphalt. or to be more precise, intelligent asphalt. by embedding sensors into the pavement, as well as installing cameras on traffic lights, we will be able to analyze the flow of traffic. that data runs across our network and we use it to optimize the timing of lights, so that traffic flows easier and travel times are shorter. who knew asphalt could help save the environment? >> dickerson: we're back with senator lindsey graham. senator before we get to north korea one more question on this investigation. the president made this calls up to the hill about these investigations into russian interference. was that appropriate for him to make those phone calls? >> i don't know what the consent was. but he's never asked me to stop an investigation, that would be
to say, stop the investigation, it's not inappropriate to have a discussion in general. again, i just want people to understand, mike flynn would know if there was collusion in my view between the trump campaign and the russians. there's no evidence of collusion, nobody has been charged with collusion. the lawyers said there was no collusion can if there was, flynn would know, we're going to know pretty soon. >> dickerson: but on larger question you're not saying only about collusion because there is obstruction of justice question. >> completely different, built that's not my focus. >> dickerson: i understand. i'm saying in general -- north korea. where are we with north korea right now. >> been we're getting close to military conflict because north korea's marching towards the technology of icbm with nuclear weapon on top that cannot only get to america but deliver the weapon. we're running out of time. said that yesterday. i'm going to urge the pentagon not to send any more dependents to south korea, south korea should be
it's crazy to send thousands of children to south korea. i want them to stop sending dependents, i think it's now time to start moving american dependents out of the south korea. >> dickerson: how close you say we're getting close to military confrontation, what are we talking about here? >> intelligence community can tell you that better than i can. i have extensive discussion with the administration about this topic. the policy of the trump administration is to deny north korea the capability to hit american with nuclear tip missile. preemptive war as last resort. that is becoming more likely as technology matures. every missile test, every underground test of a nuclear weapon means marriage is more likely, i think we're really running out of time. the chinese are trying but ineffectively f. there is underground nuclear test then you need to get ready for a very serious response b u
congress be having a big open conversation about preemptive war? >> i think so. i think the president as commander in chief has ability to strike north korea to protect the american homeland. that discussion needs to happen among ourselves. >> dickerson: lot me ask you about the president's team, lot of back and forth about whether secretary of state tillerson, after all the reports so forth do you have confidence in the president's team around him to manage this tricky question? >> he's got the best united team of anybody i've seen. since i've been in washington the president itself early on made right decision, i'm not going to allow north korea to hit america with nuclear weapon we're not going to live than threat, if i have to go to war, i don't want to to stop it i will. everybody before president trump screwed it up including republicans, now we need to get it right. i think he's got the right approach, he's got the right team. i hope china will help us, we're running out of time. >> dickerson: we have run out of time, senator, tnk
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>> dickerson: senator angus king, welcome. mitch mcconnell says regular order on this tax bill. >> if that was regular order i mated to see something else. this is the bill. i brought it. this is the bill that we got at about 6:00 at night that we were going to vote on that night. there were no hearings, there was some general hearings about tax reform, zero hearings on the bill. and even the bill that was reported out by the finance committee was different than what we were handed that we had to vote on few hours later. what worries me, i come on deered a staffer's desk. all the way through. now, i can't say i understood all of it but you could do the things that we were talking about, reducing corporate tax rates, doubling standard deduction, maybe 50 pages. this is 477 pages, john.
that i don't think anybody knows what it's all about. i just happen to pick up, i marked understand margin on page 409, domestic royal and gas extraction income. what's that all about? there's a later provision about income on oil and gas from foreign countries, what's that about? the point, nobody knew what was going on here and there was a moment when we could have fixed it. chuck schumer moved to recess friday night about 9:00 until monday give people chance to go through this and dig through it. partyline vote, denied. end up voting at 2:00 a.m. >> dickerson: mr. mccome said plaining about the process means that you're losing. >> i think there is -- there's a point there because i heard him complain about the process a lot when i first arrived. but at some point process matters. the 86 tax bill, hearings, ten months, the vo
by the way was 90-10. this one barely was dragged across finish line on partyline vote. >> dickerson: what happens now? >> well, there's lot of talk about what the conference will be. i give it 50-50 there will nobody conference, i think there's a chance, because i don't think that either side wants to take the house or senate wants to bring this back to the floor. the house just may take senate bill and send it to the president. what happens now is, we've now made a 0-year decision, this may be most important vote any of us take in our career. because this isn't the reauthorization of the faa or even the farm bill. this is something that's going to affect every american, every business, the whole economy for decades. and what happens now is, we're going to see -- i give it three predictions. i got three predictions. one you're going to she people put on long serious face as was, the deficit is a proem
or medicare we got to restructure, that's number one. that's the first prediction. two, we're going to find some really stinky stuff in here that we didn't know. and three, anything good that happens in america in the next year including good weather at the super bowl is going to be attributed to this bill. those are my predictions. >> dickerson: we'll come back talk to you senator on the other side. commercial. we'll be back with senator angua king after this break, stay with us. glam stors stay confident for over 75 years. call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. the moment a fish is pulled out from the water, it's a race against time. and keeping it in the right conditions is the best way to get that fish to your plate safely. sometimes the product arrives and the cold chain has been interrupted, and we need to be able to identify
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>> dickerson: we're back with angus king. before i want to ask you about intelligence committee, first on the question of spending. government spending at the end of the year democratic leaders didn't meet with the president this week. what is your sense of what happens when government is running out of money? >> they're already talking about another short term a cc, continuing resolution that would get us into january escape this deadline of this week. i think it's really unfortunate, generally all the work of the appropriations committees have been done through budget we can pass a budget. could have passed a budget two months ago. i don't sense, nobody wants to shut down, i don't sense that that's going to come unless it's through mutual misunderstanding between the two sides. >> dickerson: let me ask you about michael flynn. giwh
the intelligence committee how do you read thisly deal that you make? >> one to have ways. he pled to a fairly minor a offense that's the end of it it's not a big deal. the other you could say he pled to fairly minor offense that means he has lot to deliver to the prosecutors. i think one of the most significant developments is in the last 24 hours where the president tweeted yesterday that he fired him because he had lied to the fbi. that's the first time the president has said that. and it was the next day after he was fired that the president allegedly said to jim comey, go easy on flynn. if he said to comey go easy on flynn knowing that he had lied to the fbi, that ups the ante on that particular part of this whole situation and i think that may be one of the things mr. mueller is focusing on. >> dickerson: does that change the shape of your investigation on intelligence committee, are you looking into obstruction of justice in the work you're doing? >> no. i think that's important distinction to make. muelis
investigation. he's a prosecutor. he's looking for criminal violations. we're looking for the facts. and our focus is on what did the russians do, will they do it again, what did they do in the states and was there solution between the trump campaign. my concern about all, this john, is that the h the latter issue, hot political issue of trump and russians in the campaign is obscuring the larger issue which is, the russians attacked our democracy and they're going to do it again. and that's where the focus of our investigation is. and on the collusion issue. >> dickerson: get your thoughts on senate armed services committee, you heard lindsey graham talk about americans preparing for preemptive action with north korea. >> parted of dip mow that see has to be the threat of military force. the makes your negotiations credible. but we've really got to lean on the chinese. they have to be the solution to this. this is not a case, one of the worst terms ever to enter our
there's no such thing as surgical strike. idea that we can go take out their nuclear capability just isn't so. most of it is deep underground. so, we would be talking about a major war on the korean peninsula, plus seoul is only 35 miles from the north korean border, anybody happens in north korea seoul is history that's 26 million people including couple hundred thousands thousand americans. i wouldn't say it's unthinkable it's got to be credible but we can't go there any time soon. >> dickerson: all right. senator, thank you so much for being with us, we'll be back with white house budget director mick mulvaney. map bloom h finally. hey ron! they're finally taking down that schwab billboard. oh, not so fast, carl. ♪ oh no. schwab, again? index investing for that low? that's three times less than fidelity... ...and four times less than vanguard. what's next, no minimums?
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this is not in your bailiwick but i got to ask you add administration official, yesterday the president said that he knew michael flynn lied to the fbi. and that's why he fired him. but then he said this investigation is a witch hunt, if he lied to the fbi that's not a witch hunt. >> john, you're probably asking the wrong person about that. it's been busy week, i'm working two jobs, i'm going back over -- probably not the right person to ask about flynn investigation. >> dickerson: we'll let that be there. let me ask you about taxes. president said that he might be okay with the 22% corporate rate
that right and why the change? >> i don't think it's a change. when you heard the president say we're very close to finish line you know he's one of 15% rate from the beginning, moved to 20% rate as part of the discussion, my understanding is that the senate has 20% rate now, house has 20% rate now, we're happy with both of those numbers. if something small happens in conference and gets us across the finish line we'll look on it assays by case basis. i don't think you see any significant change in our position on corporate tax. >> dickerson: one of the goals was to make taxes less complicated. taxes are not going to be less complicated. >> they will be for ordinary people. order marry americans, for small business going to be fairly complex but they always were. you know when you signed up to be a pass-flew entity that your life would be complicated for taxes. but for ordinary folks it will be. >> dickerson: shrink the irs, irs will have the get big tore watch all of these new tax regulations if you don't not going to squeeze revenue out that you need
balance. >> not lot of new regulations. change the way we treat again, pass through entities but lot of the deductions are gone. lot of loopholes, those are gone. there is still some simplification. not increase in the size of the irs or to administer this law. >> dickerson: let me ask you about carried interest, the loophole that exists allows people to get away with murder. hedge fund managers, there have been tweaks in that but not material changes. why was that something that couldn't get through given what the president said which is that these people who benefit from that hoop hole are getting away with murder. >> go back to the beginning, the we laid out principles at the white house. principles ordinary families would pay less and wait be simpler for them to pay. within those guard rails we sort left it up to the house and senate they apparently both settled on the same plan which is that if you hold an asset longer than three years you're going to get that carried
both bills. that does discourage some of the abuse. >> dickerson: there's not much short term in the carried interest but -- >> i think average holding on the assets is well over three years. so it's not something that is going to get at what the president made big deal about both as candidate and as president the treatment that benefits those people who said was getting away with murder is -- >> go back to what we have, our priorities were. ordinary families, lower corporate tax rate we got that. the house and senate filled in the details of that was up to them. >> dickerson: we've talked about this before. that priority, sticking with the priorities, middle class families going to be quarter that might see taxes go up in the senate bill they -- those tax cuts expire. just in watching this go through there's some such focus on keeping the corporate rate at 20%. there's been that flexibility on really being able to say what you started to be able to say at the beginning that everything in the middle class was -- >> i'm not sure where the quarter number comes f. >> dickerson: the stan
might see taxes go up. >> keep in mind, standard deduction the number of people who otherwise itemize will go down. come to this issue of expirati expiration, it is, call it what it is. it's gaming the system. the senate rules are so bizarre owe arcane that you have to sort of horseshoe a bill into that senate reconciliation process which is why they are -- rates are going to expire after five years. bush tax cuts were the same way, most didn't expire. if it's good policy it will be permanent, if it's bad policy, temporary. >> dickerson: gaming the system seems like dangerous place to be when you're passing legislation. >> they did it for health care. any time goat through -- >> dickerson: you want to repeat the mistakes of the other team that you were so unhappy about do you want to repeat those mistakes yourself? >> i'd rather change the rules so that ordinary legislation can be considered on ordinary basis you're not sitting there forcing policy into procedure. you shouldn't let procedure dictate what your
exactly what you have to do because of these rules. >> dickerson: people say those procedures help keep the deficit problem going down. let me ask you about the shut down, democrats meet with the president what is the status? >> it's funny to see now that republicans are charged -- i think there's group of right wingers in the house say they want to shut the government down. there's group of democrats who want to shut the government down over daca and group of lawmakers from the hurricane states. just sheds light on the fact that the appropriations and spending system is broken. what any little group can hold government hostage, we need to get beyond that. i think we will. >> dickerson: people used to say that about you. when you wanted to shut the government down for reasons, you've changed your stripes. >> all the more reason the system should be fixed, we don't spend money properly in washington, d.c. we jump these massive bills to massive bills. the government shut down i think, john, 17 times in the 20 years between
>> dickerson: go back to the tax bill where people basically gave up their fiscal conservatism in order to get a tax bill but this is always -- >> i can stints are basically -- my reputation isn't dark dash it's to help. that's why i'm so interested in seeing that tax bill passed because deficits are a function of two things. amount of money in and the amount of money out. spending is one of those tax revenues is the other. we have to get the tax revenues up, that means we have to get back to healthy american economy, grow the economy so that you make more money, i make more money, ordinary americans make more money, that helps the economy. >> dickerson: a big debate whether this bill meets that criteria. >> all our conversations, yes, sir. >> . dickerson: a good shut down, president once talked about maybe be good to have a shut down. >> that goes back, remember when he said that in april, and that goes back to the system being broken. congress doesn't send money the way it's supposed to. supposed to passion, this is getting deep down, 1 differen
appropriations bills. they don't pass any. we have these massive
bills at the end of the year, passes all one time or fails at one time that's sorted of managing by crisis to crisis it's not good way. >> dickerson: the crisis is we're outed of time. >> always a pleasure. dickerson: we'll be back in a moment with our panel.
>> dickerson: for some analysis ton this very busy week we turn to our political panel. julie pace is washington bureau chief for associated press. ramesh ponnuru sennier editor at national review, also joined by ron brownstein senior editor of "the atlantic" and cnn senior political analyst and ezra klein, is the founder editor at large. ramesh, start with you. the tax cuts, looks leek it's going to pass signed by the president, big win for the president, what is your take on it? >> not just a big win for president. his only major legislative win so far. and i think that is the thing that -- republicans were just desperate to get something across the finish line be able to tell people that they accomplished something while in office.
long standing republican goals, particularly bringing down corporate tax rate what is which this entire bill. >> dickerson: how does it shake out? >> you know, normally passing a tax cut is like playing tennis without a net in terms of the public reaction. people like it. this tax cut facing two to one opposition in polling. 60% of americans wait benefit the rich at the expense. middle class which is tough language. there are reasons for that. increase deficit by at least a trillion most optimistic estimates after growth. it puts most of its benefits, 612% by some estimates into the top 1%. and all of the studies have shown relatively limited impact on accelerating growth. that i don't think is at risk. it's a part of earlier tax bills in raising taxes on certain targets. people who live in big session, live in blue states, cuts taxes for alternative energy while preserving them for oil and gas.
bill. clear expression of this -- these are people on our side, these are people on the other side exposes us to much more political risk than usually see in a tax bill. >> dickerson: picking up on ron's point, leader mcconnell, how popular it gets. chuck schumer said when people learn what is in the bill as this goes along it's going to become more and more popular. they really just -- >> it's interesting. two things happen here. one is that recently obamacare has got enmore popular, majority popular bill for first time since its passage, since trump got elected. other thing that tax bill does on the way to passage it destabilizes individual insurance market in america. the republicans had skinny repeal at the end of the obamacare effort, was that they're going to repeal individual mandate. they knew that was a bad idea. the idea was it
wouldn't make it law, change the conpresence. right now they assed the tax bill on the way to passage gets rid of the individual mandate according to congressional budget office, 1 million people lose insurance premiums, go up by 10%, individual market will be much more destabilized they don't have an answer. has all the features ron just mentioned it's also going to up end american health insurance markets, not thought hard about how to handle it at all. something they have to get a little bit of revenue didn't think through on the way to passage. >> dickerson: what's your take? >> politically big win for president and republicans if they can get through to conference process they have ever political incentive to try to move through that process pretty quickly. i think one of the big things that we have to look at over the next year or two as the president heads towards 2020 which is the impacted of this legislation on his voters. he has made leaping promises to his voters, working class votedders that they're going to get big tax cuts. ey
you look at the analysis that's come through. yes, many middle class americans will get some kind of tax cut, some may not, for some it may be fairly minimal. he's putting lot of his own political capital into a piece of legislation that may not bring the kind of success for his voters that he is promising. >> if you go back and you lookt 25 democratic senators voted for reagan tax cuts. 12 democratic -- original 81. '86 everybody voted. 25 democratic senators in 2001, 12 democratic senators voted for bush tax cuts. when this started lot of expectation because there are ten democrats running in 2018 in states and senators in states that the president trump carried that he had lot of leverage to get them to vote for hit. this bill is so tilted toward republican constituents, relatively narrowly at the top but no democrats felt compelled, even in stateth
double digits in stark contrast to '01. i understand politics has changed since the '80s and '01. but this is not something that they were afraid of opposing. both because of the politics and substance. >> trump is less popular as most presidents are. >> west virginia -- you wrote this week about an effort by senator rubio and lee to try to build up that families at the lower end of this. why was there resistance to what they were trying to do? other things that paul ryan has been fan of increasing itc for childless, lower rates at the bottom. why were those which would have been direct injections into the middle class, where were those slow to get through? >> senator mike lee and marco rubio tried to make payroll tax relief possible for families by extending the child credit and pay for that by just increasing corporate rate less than 1%. republicans were just dead set against it. 2
keep this 20% rate that that somehow -- in the democrats by and large decided they did not want to participate in this bill. they could have carried that across the finish line if they had wanted to. >> dickerson: ezra, back on health care question, susan collins as trade for her vote said that mitch mcconnell promised her that alexander murray, bill being used to stabilize affordable care act, of course, before the mandate was taken away, give me your sense on that and mcconnell committed to that. >> alexander murray was designed to deal with problems that are in obamacare now, also the trump administration continuing to sabotage obamacare, the expectation. cost sharing. you cannot pass alexander murray after blowing acquainted hole in that. it's not powerful enough to fix. that you can even -- those are percentages pulled out of no where, can imagine stabilizes by
destabilizes by 40%. you have net worth individual market. this was not a trade that ever made any sense. a figure leave. you're doing something without having any idea of what you're actually doing. >> back to the point about the economic impact of the tax bill. essentially you have republican coalition now that depends largely on the votes of the blue collar, lower middle income whites. and trump is speaking to very powerfully on cultural basis, you have a tax bill that tilts even more towards the top 1% and bush tax cuts. quarter of the benefits, this is three fifths. the questions can they hold the blue collar voters. ram 7ing up relative to bush or reagan the culture antagonism, overt kind of racial element in the message. problem they're getting that is pushing away more people am the top. if you have to predict for 2018 which is bigger risk, blue collar people violating their interest or white collar people
that's what we saw in virginia and panel bam and blue collar side is holding so far for the republicans. >> tax bill does reduce taxes on average including blue collar people. the questions are they going to be upset that other people get bigger tax cut than they do. >> people who are coiling from trump will also face higher taxes in blue states. there are still lot of republicans in southern california, new york, new jersey, northern virginia, minneapolis, chicago who will be at risk in this bill from voters who are already pulling away on cultural and racial grounds. >> dickerson: let's switch here to -- michael flynn. what do we make of this? it's a big deal. what is your take on it? >> it's that huge deal. white house is leading hard in the actual court documents that came out at the end of the week there is no evidence of collusion between trump campaign and russia. that is true,ed
in the court documents. i think senator graham made a good point if that is mueller's aim to see if that existed he now has the witness that he -- cooperating witness that he needs, michael flynn was by trump's side throughout the campaign. was flying on his plane, with him behind the scenes, major player in terms of their formation of policy such as it was and i think the other thing that is significant about the court documents is that undermines entire white house argument about why nine was fired. flynn was fired because he was freelancing in his conversations with the russian ambassador, lied to mike pens about it, he did this on his own. court documents say he was actually in direct conversations with jared kushner and casey mcfarland, talking about conversations with the russians. haven't heard good explanation from the white house about. that very clear that flynn was not the only person during the transition who was aware that they were going to talk policy with russian
if you just step back from flynn, from manafort, everything we're hearing from the meetings, all the times kushner lied on security clearances, there's lot being forgotten about, lied about, misrepresented, for all to be innocent. we don't know the whole story yet, mueller is very expansive investigation, but it is getting to be -- what we're being asked to believe as innocent getting to be almost ridiculous, the junior e-mails, i'd love to get? dirt on hillary clinton. there's an overall picture coming together here and for group that says they have nothing to hide, there sure is lot they at great legal risk to hide. >> we all want to know what this means for the future of the mueller investigation. obviously because this is ally agreement that means that mueller thought he could charge flynn with more than that, and that he wants flynn's
what the future holds here. but one thing that we can easily skip over is, this just shows terrible judgment on the part of somebody who is the national security advisor, there for also shows terrible judgment on the part of the person who hired him. the administration sending out press releases where they say, this was an obama guy. of course work in the obama administration, but warned the trump people not to hire him. they went ahead now, really just shows again abysmal judge for example a president who always said he was going to surround himself with the best people. >> the special counsel does not give all hall passes easily. there's a lot he could have charged michael flynn with that he did not. the assumption has to be there's reason why they made that call. only thing we know about special counsel, lot we don't know. they know lot more than we do. may know than people they're interslewing. that limits our ability to truly understand where this is going, every indication is that this is a v
comprehensive investigation. >> dickerson: we'll have tonight it there. thanks so all of you. we'll be right back. ...just go to bed." aveeno® positively radiant® overnight facial. get the benefits of a spa facial... ...overnight. aveeno®. "naturally beautiful results®" aveeno®. that was just a'ight for me. yo, checi mean,t dawg. you got the walk. you got the stance.. but i wasn't really feeling it. you know what, i'm not buying this. you gotta come a little harder dawg. you gotta figure it out. eh, i don't know. shaky on the walk, carriage was off. randy jackson judging a dog show. i don't know dawg. surprising. what's not surprising? how much money lisa saved by switching to geico. wow! performance of the night. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. pain from a headache whcan make this...ld, ...feel like this. all-in-one cold symptom relief from tylenol®,
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